The last (hopefully) post of the day on Obama gaffe
Which one, you ask? The most recent one regarding his great uncle liberating Auschwitz, of course. The following comes from Dan Riehl and it's the most comprehensive post regarding the digging New Media is doing on this issue: (HT to Hugh Hewitt)
A New Problem For Obama?
Update: As of now, there's been much speculation and linkage as regards Obama's Great Uncle. Nothing I have seen confirms his middle initial as "T," as opposed to "W." And a CT Payne someone sent info on is deceased. That would seem to disqualify him. Also, S&L has exchanged correspondence with a site claiming to support Obama's position. The emails make the site seem dubious, at best. If I see something substantive that changes the equation, like Obama giving up a full name, etc - I'll update. At least for now, Obama's claim is in doubt. But then this is a guy who claimed his Grandfather enlisted the day after Pearl Harbor, when he actually enlisted months later.
Evidently the Senator doesn't only speak well ... he speaks "fast," as they say. And I believe he also included those wrong facts in his book. Given the media passing on all of his gaffes, if not downright lies, he is increasingly looking like the Affirmative Action candidate. And I don't believe the majority of Americans favor that type of system for electing a president.
And Mr. Kitchell’s helpful reply:
Please crawl back under the rock you came out from.
Good day
Raymond Kitchell, veteran 89th Inf Div
I have since been sent this followup email:
From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:47 AM
To: Steve Gilbert
Subject: Re: Any Record Of Charles W Payne?
I don’t claim to represent anyone. You are the one who came to my son and I asking for information.
Please spend ample time chasing down the lies fed to you by chickenhawks Bush & Co. Like 90% of this administration, they don’t have the foggiest idea what we went through or what we saw at Ohrdruf.
Okay, so we have supposedly learned that it was Obama's Great Uncle that liberated a sub-section of Buchenwald, not an uncle at Auschwitz. But if sources are correct and unless there's some arcane military history in his favor, Obama still has a problem.
His only Great Uncle is Charles W. Payne. It at least appears that no one by that name from Kansas served in the Army during WWII.
Charles W. Payne of Kansas, with a similar birth era, served in the Navy during WWII.
What Obama's campaign released via first link above states he served in the Infantry. I assume it's possible the records are wrong, or he changed branches. But I'm unaware of that as a standard practice. Perhaps it happened during WWII for manpower reasons? Otherwise, Obama's Great Uncle would seem to have done most of his marching and liberating while at sea.
Information about the infantry division that Obama’s great uncle was a part of that took part in the liberation of a sub-camp of the Buchenwald concentration camp in Nazi German:
So, now we know which camp he supposedly helped liberate, but New Media is trying to locate his great uncle, and we can't seem to find anything that can corroborate his insistence that his great uncle helped liberate any concentration camps in Germany. Any attempts to find the man, or any records of him ever serving in an infantry division keeps hitting a dead end. So, we are left with a couple of questions:
Did his great uncle serve in an infantry division at all?
If so, would Senator Obama be willing to prove that by giving us, or the MSM, his name so it can be confirmed?
If his great uncle is the Charles W. Payne, noted above, that served in the US Navy, what part, if any, did he play in liberating the sub-camp at Buchenwald?
It should also be noted that there were 140 sub-camps to Buchenwald. (Auschwitz isn't listed, but Ohrdruf is.) BTW, at the Wiki link there is this under the general description of the camp, and what greeted it's liberators in relation to what is entitled "2008 Obama Campaign Misstatement:"
During the 2008 Democratic Presidential Primary campaign Illinois Senator Barack Obama mistakenly said at a Memorial Day event in New Mexico, "I had an uncle who was part of the first American troops to go into Auschwitz and liberate the concentration camps." Historically the statement was inaccurate as Auschwitz camp was liberated by Soviet troops.
The Obama campaign corrected the statement & later said the candidate mistakenly referred to the wrong Nazi death camp when relating the story of a great-uncle who served in World War II. That relative of the Senator actually helped liberate a Buchenwald subcamp.
Charles W. Payne, born 1924, enlisted 10 Nov '42, Navy, 6293977 REgistered, order #12019, Kansas City, Wyandotte Co., Board #4[1]
It appears he was in the navy.
We're with Dan Riehl, and the rest of the bloggers digging into this. We'd like some answers, and it can start with just the name of his great uncle, and if he was in the Navy at any point did he change branches of the military, possibly after his initial Navy duty? We'll recall that his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, served two years in the Marine Corps, then enlisted in the Navy, and served as a corpsman. So it's not unfathomable if he switched branches. But again, we need Obama to fill in a couple of holes to put an end to this issue.
Publius II
A New Problem For Obama?
Update: As of now, there's been much speculation and linkage as regards Obama's Great Uncle. Nothing I have seen confirms his middle initial as "T," as opposed to "W." And a CT Payne someone sent info on is deceased. That would seem to disqualify him. Also, S&L has exchanged correspondence with a site claiming to support Obama's position. The emails make the site seem dubious, at best. If I see something substantive that changes the equation, like Obama giving up a full name, etc - I'll update. At least for now, Obama's claim is in doubt. But then this is a guy who claimed his Grandfather enlisted the day after Pearl Harbor, when he actually enlisted months later.
Evidently the Senator doesn't only speak well ... he speaks "fast," as they say. And I believe he also included those wrong facts in his book. Given the media passing on all of his gaffes, if not downright lies, he is increasingly looking like the Affirmative Action candidate. And I don't believe the majority of Americans favor that type of system for electing a president.
And Mr. Kitchell’s helpful reply:
Please crawl back under the rock you came out from.
Good day
Raymond Kitchell, veteran 89th Inf Div
I have since been sent this followup email:
From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 10:47 AM
To: Steve Gilbert
Subject: Re: Any Record Of Charles W Payne?
I don’t claim to represent anyone. You are the one who came to my son and I asking for information.
Please spend ample time chasing down the lies fed to you by chickenhawks Bush & Co. Like 90% of this administration, they don’t have the foggiest idea what we went through or what we saw at Ohrdruf.
Okay, so we have supposedly learned that it was Obama's Great Uncle that liberated a sub-section of Buchenwald, not an uncle at Auschwitz. But if sources are correct and unless there's some arcane military history in his favor, Obama still has a problem.
His only Great Uncle is Charles W. Payne. It at least appears that no one by that name from Kansas served in the Army during WWII.
Charles W. Payne of Kansas, with a similar birth era, served in the Navy during WWII.
What Obama's campaign released via first link above states he served in the Infantry. I assume it's possible the records are wrong, or he changed branches. But I'm unaware of that as a standard practice. Perhaps it happened during WWII for manpower reasons? Otherwise, Obama's Great Uncle would seem to have done most of his marching and liberating while at sea.
Information about the infantry division that Obama’s great uncle was a part of that took part in the liberation of a sub-camp of the Buchenwald concentration camp in Nazi German:
So, now we know which camp he supposedly helped liberate, but New Media is trying to locate his great uncle, and we can't seem to find anything that can corroborate his insistence that his great uncle helped liberate any concentration camps in Germany. Any attempts to find the man, or any records of him ever serving in an infantry division keeps hitting a dead end. So, we are left with a couple of questions:
Did his great uncle serve in an infantry division at all?
If so, would Senator Obama be willing to prove that by giving us, or the MSM, his name so it can be confirmed?
If his great uncle is the Charles W. Payne, noted above, that served in the US Navy, what part, if any, did he play in liberating the sub-camp at Buchenwald?
It should also be noted that there were 140 sub-camps to Buchenwald. (Auschwitz isn't listed, but Ohrdruf is.) BTW, at the Wiki link there is this under the general description of the camp, and what greeted it's liberators in relation to what is entitled "2008 Obama Campaign Misstatement:"
During the 2008 Democratic Presidential Primary campaign Illinois Senator Barack Obama mistakenly said at a Memorial Day event in New Mexico, "I had an uncle who was part of the first American troops to go into Auschwitz and liberate the concentration camps." Historically the statement was inaccurate as Auschwitz camp was liberated by Soviet troops.
The Obama campaign corrected the statement & later said the candidate mistakenly referred to the wrong Nazi death camp when relating the story of a great-uncle who served in World War II. That relative of the Senator actually helped liberate a Buchenwald subcamp.
Charles W. Payne, born 1924, enlisted 10 Nov '42, Navy, 6293977 REgistered, order #12019, Kansas City, Wyandotte Co., Board #4[1]
It appears he was in the navy.
We're with Dan Riehl, and the rest of the bloggers digging into this. We'd like some answers, and it can start with just the name of his great uncle, and if he was in the Navy at any point did he change branches of the military, possibly after his initial Navy duty? We'll recall that his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, served two years in the Marine Corps, then enlisted in the Navy, and served as a corpsman. So it's not unfathomable if he switched branches. But again, we need Obama to fill in a couple of holes to put an end to this issue.
Publius II
posted by Syd And Vaughn | 7:03 PM
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